View Full Version : Dumb question
ScubaSteve
13 Feb 08, 01:37
Maybe I'm behind the times here but can women fly kiowas and apaches? Also are they allowed in the 160th? I thought they could but I've never actually seen a female attack pilot.
RLTW
SGT Pate
...can women fly kiowas and apaches?
SGT Pate
Women can fly Kiowas and most Apache pilots are...oh, never mind.
As for the 160th, someone else can answer that.
BTW, you know there is no such thing as a dumb question.
... and most Apache pilots are...oh, never mind...
And that's what makes you a bad person... well it's not the only thing of course.:wink:
rangerreece
13 Feb 08, 07:28
Actually, if that wasn't a dumb question, it was close enough to spit on it. Don't worry about it. There are females in aviation. Some of them, like males are good pilots, some of them, like males are not so good pilots. Unless you're going aviation to find a date, it shouldn't matter.
Ranger's Still Lead The Way, however it takes aviation to get them to that lead position.
Just a quick note: I'm conducting RL progression on our new female LT in our troop tomorrow, my fellow troop IP, said she was shit hot in the cockpit, and by that I mean a good pilot; I'll be flying her on her second flight in the unit tomorrow, putting her through the paces. Some of the best pilots I know in the Army are female, some of the worst pilots I know in the Army are female, some of the best pilots I know in the Army are male... some of the worst are male... gender or race really has no bearing in the cockpit. One doesn't have to bench 300 pounds to be a good pilot, just have a sincere desire to kill the enemies of our nation, (if you're a gun pilot) I've run across more males that struggle with that then females. If you've never worked with females before in the Army, it will be a bit of a culture shock to you, but if you are a professional, and open minded you will quickly learn that working with females is no big deal; it's part of the job, and you move past the whole gender issue and concentrate on the mission, or the task at hand while on the job.
I know this is a sensitive subject and most people don't address it on open forums like this, but as a former Ranger, it's something I had to deal with coming to aviation, but I quickly learned that I was the handicapped one when it came to dealing with females, and not the other way around. Don't worry Ranger, if you keep a clear mind on this subject you'll be ok. You will run into trouble if you come into the community with pre-conceived notions and an ego that prevents you from being an effective team player.
Maybe I'm behind the times here but can women fly kiowas and apaches? Also are they allowed in the 160th? I thought they could but I've never actually seen a female attack pilot.
RLTW
SGT Pate
Didn't you watch Firebirds?:biggrin:
Combat Dan
13 Feb 08, 11:02
Didn't you watch Firebirds?:biggrin:
Oh you went there!
rangerreece, thanks for the post. I think its better having conversations about the topic than ignoring it. For the guys, while I can't speak for all females, I say most just want to be treated like one of the guys and that's it.
Having flown with males and females, though not in the KW. I agree with RR. There are good pilots and there are pilots that need improvement. There are also pilots that should never have come out of Mother Rucker with their learners permit. Age, sex, race etc, etc, etc, didn't matter. What matters is what you know and how well you apply it. I always told my guys that my highest requirement was when I got you pointed and the switches set and told you to pull the trigger I wanted to hear armament leaving the airframe, not what, why or let's think about this.
ScubaSteve
14 Feb 08, 09:46
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying anything derogatory. I just didn't know if women where permitted to fly attack birds, and I couldn't find the answer on the net. I've never seen a woman in the 160th so I was curious.
Just to clarify, I wasn't saying anything derogatory. I just didn't know if women where permitted to fly attack birds, and I couldn't find the answer on the net. I've never seen a woman in the 160th so I was curious.
160th is still an all boys club because they fall under the SF umbrella.
nehringer
14 Feb 08, 14:28
Like in any other line of work, there are women who can out-perform some of the fellas. There are also dirt bags of all variety and sex. I served with two of the finest ladies I have ever known when females were still very, very new to the Cavalry. They were Yin and Yan, but both outstanding officers, pilots and Cavalrymen, (whatever). This was a little while ago, '95 to be precise and the idea of women in forward units was more of an idea than a practicality. Most recently, in '03 I was part of what I like to call a dysfunctional familly that had a femal troop commander, (not mine!). She was worthless, as was the SCO, but that's another story. Fortunately, the unit was spared heavy action durring the deployment. Otherwise those two officers in particular would have been stuffing body bags.
On the civilian side, I have encountered many female pilots. Not that it applies to combat, but having been a grunt, I'm sure you can appreciate a fresh perspective on working with females. Up to now, you haven't had to share your space with them. As an officer, you need to be professional. Women often get comfortable with their buddies just like we do. This can start problems when jokes get dirtier and feelings get involved. It can get super messy in a hurry if officers conduct themselves less than professionally in mixed company. Women want to be treated just like the guys, but it doesn't always work out that way. Don't be affraid to sack up and say, "Excuse me, but I don't think this conversation is appropriate in mixed company". Yes, everyone here and all of the guys in your tent will call you a few girly names for that, but in saying that at the right time, you could very well be saving the unit from a complete collapse.
There are also SOME women out there who, while they say they want to be treated equally, don't really mean it. They expect differential treatment and they will hang you by your no-nos to get it. Just like I said, loose tent talk...it goes too far, encourage by HER and the next morning, you are facing a firing squad, (figuratively speaking of course, but your career may as well be shot). Of course its all based on lies! Thats the point. Once a "he said, she said" battle ensues, there is no stopping it until the male is removed from the environment. I've seen it, thank God, from the outside and on more than one ocasion. The units that stick together are the ones where the females are treated fairly, well trained and not given a reason to pull the pin on that grenade. Males do need to treat females with a little extra RESPECT, and nothing more. Be a gentleman, but don't over do it. You're not there to score. You're expected by the unit and each other to cover each other's ass and get home in one piece. Don't lose sight of that!
young gun
14 Feb 08, 16:05
BTW, you know there is no such thing as a dumb question.
..no, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots....not saying you are one, steve, i just like that line.
combat aviation was opened to women by the SEC DEF in 1993, but positions in the cavalry didn't open up until a little later.
160th always confuses me. everyone says women can't be in 160th but theres a female COL in aviation systems at redstone who was in 160th and wears the numbered brass (well, did back when we were BDUs) and i can't rememebr for sure but i think she commanded, so i don't get it. maybe limited roles? ...anyone?
i'm with RR on comments too, but for those that say women shouldnt be there will also add that my commander/ wingman in the invasion was a woman (still is) and a great commander. she was awarded "V" on airmedal for kicking ass and killing lots of jerks and a bronze star for commanding a troop that kicked lots of ass and killed lots of jerks.
BTW, you know there is no such thing as a dumb question.
Sure there are, don't you watch the news?
Reporter to person who's house just got flattened by a tornado "How do you feeeel about losing everything you own and being homeless?"
rangerreece
14 Feb 08, 23:24
The questions Scuba Steve should be asking are:
what are my engine limits.
What is Special VFR
what's the cyclic rate of fire of a .50
Steve, are you seeing the difference between smart and dumb questions now?
rangerreece
14 Feb 08, 23:24
Oh, and if you know the answer to those three questions, there's much much more where that came from.
Are you in flight school yet?
insanescout
15 Feb 08, 01:06
Ok in a few posts back she said she is speaking for most of the females. And that they just wanted to be treated like one of the guys.
If you really really think, I dont think that you do and here is why...
1. today I had a chance to sneak up on fellow scout grab him around the neck (from behind) and dry hump him into submission.
2. when ever passing afore mentioned aviator I will give them a firm pat on the ass and keep walking and not give them a good game.
3. when addressing one of same rank or lesser I call them "Honey, Sweetie, Punkin, and my favorite Sugar Britches" .
Is this the way you wish to be treated? Because if so I am so glad we got it out in the open. Hey maybe we should start an Alpha roster of who is on board and who isnt so we know is for true equality.
rangerreece
15 Feb 08, 01:20
160th is still an all boys club because they fall under the SF umbrella.
Umm... that's not true for aviation or the ground side. There are numerous females in Spec Ops serving in varying capacities. I know the answer to female pilots in 160th but will not relinquish that information in this forum. Back to my original position on this thread, the issue is not important, worry about yourself and what you are going to do for Army aviation when you become a pilot.
Syseng and Young Gun, thank you for finishing the tag line. I like this one as well, "There are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions." The original post was left open for what I knew would be some great closing tags.
Perhaps the author already knows the answer to the other questions already, and is delving deeper into the information that is not written in a manual...or maybe not.
what are my engine limits. - Heck, what are it's capabilities?
What is Special VFR - VFR that is treated "special".
what's the cyclic rate of fire of a .50 - 1 round, recock, 1 round, recock, 1 round, recock...
ScubaSteve
15 Feb 08, 02:52
Are you in flight school yet?
Not even in the States yet.
flybynight0h58
15 Feb 08, 07:26
what's the cyclic rate of fire of a .50 - 1 round, recock, 1 round, recock, 1 round, recock...
So true so true:shooter:
rangerreece
15 Feb 08, 15:48
Silas,
How are your .50's working these days? By now, those puppies should be rocking. It always takes a few months in theater, test firing those guns every day for a "real" table 6 to be conducted.
We got .50cals? Next thing you know we'll be walking on the moon...lmao! SOrry just watched Dumb and dumber. AFter that first month of knockin the dust off the .50's they rocked for us. Although I will say we had a couple good crew dogs out there. I will tell you to keep researching your answer on women across the way. The answer is on the net. I'm with RR I konw the answer, but am not going to put it on the open forum. Just look hard enough...it's out there.(I hear a bad joke coming from that one)
I always told my guys that my highest requirement was when I got you pointed and the switches set and told you to pull the trigger I wanted to hear armament leaving the airframe, not what, why or let's think about this.
Nice...
I've broke off a few engagements because I didn't have a warm and fuzzy, aka correct house, too close, clearance of fires, etc. I've been told to break off the engagment by other guys in the flight for the same reasons that I didn't recognize. We are a team, collectively responsible for how the team is employed. We watch eachothers backs and back eachother up on everything. Alot of trust there and if we need to figure it out afterwards, then trust the PC and let it rain! Trust = staying alive...
I get ya, fo sho'
Ok in a few posts back she said she is speaking for most of the females. And that they just wanted to be treated like one of the guys.
If you really really think, I dont think that you do and here is why...
1. today I had a chance to sneak up on fellow scout grab him around the neck (from behind) and dry hump him into submission.
2. when ever passing afore mentioned aviator I will give them a firm pat on the ass and keep walking and not give them a good game.
3. when addressing one of same rank or lesser I call them "Honey, Sweetie, Punkin, and my favorite Sugar Britches" .
Is this the way you wish to be treated? Because if so I am so glad we got it out in the open. Hey maybe we should start an Alpha roster of who is on board and who isnt so we know is for true equality.
You dont say good game? Wow thats pushing it some. :biggrin:But seriously....I agree totally....my buddies and I are totally borderline sometimes.....
Nice...
I've broke off a few engagements because I didn't have a warm and fuzzy, aka correct house, too close, clearance of fires, etc. I've been told to break off the engagment by other guys in the flight for the same reasons that I didn't recognize. We are a team, collectively responsible for how the team is employed. We watch eachothers backs and back eachother up on everything. Alot of trust there and if we need to figure it out afterwards, then trust the PC and let it rain! Trust = staying alive...
I get ya, fo sho'
Bottom line, get it right going in, put steel on target and go home for the beer.
Silas,
How are your .50's working these days? By now, those puppies should be rocking. It always takes a few months in theater, test firing those guns every day for a "real" table 6 to be conducted.
Reece,
guns work great. It really depends on which armament dawg is on the pad that day. Every now and then we get some guy that does some adjustment that turns the best gun in the fleet into a left-side counter weight. Only had one gun fail when it really mattered.
Bottom line, get it right going in, put steel on target and go home for the beer.
That's why your my hero!! LET'S DRINK!!!:beerchug2::beerchug1::drink:
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