4-7 Cav shoots hellfires

[miniscout]

Well after much planning, training, and pure doubt from echlons above, CW3 E.D. pushed through and 4-7 Cav shot 40 Hellfire's on 13 July 2003. It was the first time since 1997. The biggest issue was convincing the command that we could fly single engine 50k's over the ocean.

We were scheduled to shoot two days but due to weather we only had 7 hours on the second day to shoot 50 missles. We succeded at shooting 40 of them.

I know for the old timers shooting a hellfire is anti-climatic but for us new guys it was all pretty amazing. The most important thing is that we all left there with a much better perspective of our own capabilities and those of the system.

E.D., we all thank you for your hard work and dedication to make it happen. Senior guys on your way to the land of the not quite right, keep the dream alive when you get here. It will be up to you to keep the Hellfire shoot going. Fly Safe and be well. Sam

[Grunt]

good to see it finally happened....kudos to ED for persevering - i know it was hell

*sticks his tongue out and says to the command, 'I told you so' *

[dirtyharry71]

:wall: It kills me. We have been doing it since 86, over water or not. Only reciently has the foot print grown to the size of CT. Good weapon system. It would be nice to let guys get comfortable and profecient in using it again. It would be REAL nice to get some guys of rank who know enough about it and have shot enough to support it.

[Sctdvr]

What was funniest about the shoot was the way the SCO was so resistant to shooting. But when we actually got to shoot it was like he was hepped up on goofballs for us to shoot. He liked what we could do... It is kind of funny how an armor commander changes his perspective when we actually go out and do what we do for a living. Maybe what I like to say is true. "When you ask for an Apache, Blackhawk or Chinook you ask for an aircraft. When you ask for a scout you ask for the driver." Why because we are that dam good!!! 37 for 40, what are your questions???

[dirtyharry71]

Is a Goofball a varient of an Eightball?

[Sctdvr]

yeah but only a little more silly

[Syseng]

The interim Hellfire SDZ isn't the size of CT, it's only as big as RI.

On that subject, we are in the final stages of qualifying a small brace that will run from the top of the UWP to the ends of the ejector rack. We've already flight tested it and shot Hellfire at YPG. It works. The Brace weighs a little over 2 lbs. When we get it fielded, you will be able to shoot on the "Peanut" SDZ again, with the Brace installed. It fixes the problem causing tip-off, which is the ejector rack torquing. It should also improve the OH-58D hit rate for Hellfire.

[Grunt]

good poop syseng..thanks

[AndyMiller]

:bravo:

Good deal on 37 outta 40. At what ranges were you shooting? What type of engagements (autonomous, remote, LOBL, LOAL-D)? Specifics, man, specifics.

[Linc]

Does the lightweight rack have the same problem of torquing on the ejector rack? Will the brace have the same effect?

WTG 4-7!!

[Syseng]

We tested the Lightweight rack in the same test and it gave us high missile roll rates. Not as bad as the standard Talley rack, but bad enough to be a no go for the Peanut unmodified. (We were really hoping it would fix the problem.)

The Talley rack with the brace gave us small roll rates. It's going to get us back to the Peanut. In a couple years, when we feild the lightweight (Alkan) rack, it's going to have to have the brace too. We haven't tested the Alkan with the brace yet (didn't have enough telemetry missiles), but we will have to do that. Since it appears to be marginally stiffer than the Talley rack, a braced Alkan should work fine. We have to do a little work on how we mount the Alkan as it lines up a little different.

To those of you who date back to Prime Chance, we had the same problem then, only worse, with tip-off. They had to use a brace on them too.

The data indicates to me that maybe 1/3 of our Hellfire misses can be attributed to tip off. With the brace, maybe 4-7 would have gotten 38.

Until we get the brace out there, one thing everybody can do is make sure the expanding pin is tightened to spec when you shoot Hellfire. (The one that goes through the end of the UWP). A loose pin puts slop into the fold mechanism and makes tip off more likely. Someone in a hurry might leave the pin loose, since it's easier to put in that way, when you are folding and unfolding. (When we surveyed units on this, we found aircraft with really loose pins.) If you aren't actually going to shoot, a loose pin isn't that big a deal, but it will let the launcher rattle around more and you will get wear in the fold mechanism.

[Paul M.]

Sounds like a good article for the PM Comic Book.

[spunup]

Well it definitely was a challange to get these HF's off the rail but not because of the HF issue but because of the single engine aircraft over the water. The chain specifically stated they were worried that the aircraft and their age aren't as reliable as they used to be. Anyway it was tough but the KW's pulled through thanks to our maintainers just fine. As a matter of fact the only aircraft to PL was the BDE CDR's UH-60. Funny how that works.

There are a couple of us here who were part of the Errant Hellfire Test at YPG last summer who brought back some of the knowledge gained. All the expandable bolts were tightened up to their max setting which helped I think. I reveiwed all the tapes and the three misses were for too much laser delay on a LOAL-D and two to the left seaters not ready for break lock when the missile plume went through the MMS LOS. So they were monkeying around trying to get back on target when the missile arrived down range. All missiles left the rail as advertised with no worm burners or satellite seekers. Considering those missiles were manufactured in 1989 not bad.

We shot all delivery modes and all launch modes both remote and autonomous. We were shooting from 7k's to 1.5k's. Fortunately the range is as big as New Jersey so it supports anything a HF has to offer. It is out in the middle of the Yellow Sea after all. Great job to all those who drove the 10 hours down to Kunsan, to all the maintainers, and to all the aviators for the flexibility and profenssionalism. Truly rewarding.:rockon:

[Syseng]

Well, this excercise will help out fleet stats. Over the last few years, the OH-58D has had a fleet hit rate of around 80%, annually. Undoubtedly, having the expandable bolts tight helped. Not a tip off event in 40 shots. I would have expected at least one, based on fleet historic performance. Also amazed there were no missile failures, and with 14 year old missiles. Kudos to 4-7.

During the early tip off testing, from a ground fixture at Eglin with a 58D UWP mounted on it, we had one where the expanding pin was all the way loose. Went straight up and almost straight down. Scared the test folks pretty bad.

When we start sending out the braces, there will be an AWR. It will have keeping the pin tight in it. With a tight expanding pin and the brace, we shouldn't see another tip off.

Is there a place in Korea that you can shoot on land, if you have the peanut SDZ, or will you still have to make the over water trip? Also, do they get you a SAR escort for the trip over water?

[spunup]

Unfortunately the only range in Korea that can support a Hellfire SDZ, peanut or not, is Chik-do which is off the west coast of Korea out in the Yellow Sea. Land is very hard to come by here. The largest range we have over ground is the Korean Training Center, KTC, and it is only about 2.3 KMs deep. It is a royal pain shooting rockets and keeping them on the range. As a matter of fact 1/2 Avn skipped one off of the range last winter. Fortunately it landed in a ROK compound with no damage.

As far as SAR out at Chik-do we had a 2/2 UH-60 with a 7 man raft on shadowing our flights. And we had another UH60 unit 152 Avn, equipped with caving ladders and hoists, on strip alert at our FARP, Kunsan AB, anytime we had aircraft over water.

I am suprised by the lack of missile failures as well. We thought we had one at the FARP. It wouldn't BIT correctly. But that turned out to be a bad rail on the launcher itself. Good job by all the FARP folks and the Lockheed Martin rep bustin' his hump while we were down there.