View Full Version : Bubbles and Casual Duty
I have been reading old posts and wondered what it is.
It's the land of Details, duties, and other fun stuff while you are waiting for your class to start. I've seen guys in the bubble for 6 months
What kind of details? Mowing grass, raking the rock garden? Tell me it isn't so! Private and PFC working parties....
Originally posted by matt0481
I have been reading old posts and wondered what it is.
1bub·ble
Pronunciation: 'b&-b&l
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English bobel
1 : a small globule typically hollow and light: as a : a small body of gas within a liquid b : a thin film of liquid inflated with air or gas c : a globule in a transparent solid d : something (as a plastic or inflatable structure) that is hemispherical or semicylindrical
2 a : something that lacks firmness, solidity, or reality b : a delusive scheme:D
serioulsy, PFC working parties, etc..etc.. life sucks. WO1's are the PFC's. Just gotta stay motivated and keep studying. Bubbles start at 1st woc, there you will mow and rake or worse. :wall:
I have been a Landing Support Specialist AKA Working Party Specialist for over 5 years. For my civilian jobs, I build forklifts(primary job) and also work for a landscaping contractor, so I am used to operating those import model backhoes.
Thats great, but it's not Rucker's jobs. They find a way to make it suck. Words just cant explain. During all this crap you have to deal with B Co also. Trust us on this one. Learn from others experiences, stay away from bubbles if you can. If shit happens and you get on one, stay in the mix so as not to get "lost" like many have for six months or more. Really, they can actually forget about you, then you ask about your status one day and they say "are you just checking in??" :wall:(happend to a couple of buddies) You will see what details are better than others so ask around if it looks like your gonna get on one. But a good Warrant will find a way, without jepordizing his or her integrity, to keep from getting details and just have to show up for accountability formations, thus maximizing the "time off"...;) But 2 week bubbles are not uncommon, just waiting for a class to start. But if you get pulled out of training for any reason, bubble time. sucks to be you. Good luck! :wacky:
Really guys...:rolleyes:
Bubbles last 2-4 weeks, and are due to irregularities in the flow of students from one phase of training to the next. The people on hold for months at a time are those pulled from training in the middle of a phase of training, who then have to have an opening created for them at approximately the same point that they came out. B Co neither "loses" students nor finds a way to make it suck. The whole idea of employing casual officers comes from the general officer level. The reason life on hold sucks is that students work very hard to avoid the details. This makes the cadre have to clamp down on the sudent population just to keep things together. If the officers would simply man up and do a little work for the money they are getting paid (behave like officers rather than college kids), life would be a lot easier for everybody. Perhaps in the past B Co has worked to make it suck, but the Co now is a pretty professional bunch who are working long hours to keep this thing running.
Of course, it is always easier to complain about how somebody else is taking 'your' time away from you or 'inconveniencing' you.
Again, volunteers to come help are welcome.
I will tell you what causes the bigest problem, when a student desides he or she need a week or two off to deal with his or her spouse, or something to this effect, they are pulled from trainnig, the problem is, trying to get that student back in to BCS, or whatever phase of trainnig they are in at the 4.0 hour mark. They will probably have to wait until the next class (at best), and hopefully the co. is not short IP's. or A/C. This is were the ball starts rolling, and there are other reasons that cause bubbles, The best solution is try your damdest not to miss any training and encourage the others to keep up the pace. And for what it's worth, it dosn't hurt to check in with the SMO every few days.
huge problem, those pesky human issues coming into play, damn those families!...and the worst ones are those medical ones that hold people back, especially ones requiring surgery and such....:rolleyes:
Nobody is saying that you shouldn't take care of your problems. People with legitimate issues have to be removed from training. But they can't complain if it takes them some time to get back into training.
They aren't the problem, anyway.
The problem is the people who get out of training for a week then do everything they can to delay getting back into training and also sham out of work.
There is a guy here who went out for a twisted ankle and waited for 8 months to tell anyone he had an up slip.
Granted the cadre should have found that out sooner, but there are 22 cadre for 1500 students. The student has to let the cadre know he is ready to get back into training. Positive communication has to work both ways.
Situations like this (and there are quite a few) mean that the cadre have to treat the students like they are trying to escape, just to make sure they don't lose anybody.
It is the people actively trying to hang out and collect free money that cause the issues. These are the people who just don't want to be aviators. (And I wouldn't want to fly with them if they did)
AndyMiller
02 Jul 05, 22:42
I'm sure there is a lot more to any given situation than I see at my level at Hanchey; I have even seen a FS XXI student pilot get re-inserted into training a full 14 months after being removed from training, CW2 rank and all.
Bubbles suck, yes, but they happen. Most important thing to do is stay in contact w/ B Co. You WILL get lost in the pile if you don't actively try to get back into training. Keep yourself at the top of the pile, that's all.
KaHOnas, out.
shadow_biker02
03 Jul 05, 07:25
As it was explained to me when I was there: Flight School is all about numbers. Numbers in -> Numbers out. B Co will track you as best they can, but it all comes down to how concerned you are about your own career.
Also, keep in mind that you are at flight school to get rated and go. If you are doing a detail while in a bubble, make the most of it, learn something, and get back in class as quick as you can.
If you are a flight student, then you are an officer....make sure you act like it.
kwpaquette
03 Jul 05, 08:23
If someone can figure out how to control the WX, Maintenance, parts shortages, etc., then we can make sure every class graduates on time and the bubble will go away.
Bubbles wouldn't suck if the work assigned was managerial in nature, as opposed to knuckle dragging low brow labor jobs. I feel that the manner in which the officer pool is being utilized is a travisty. If the students were placed into positions of leadership, or directing projects around the post, then I would understand the, "Working for your paycheck" mentallity.
The fact is, WO1's, and 2LT's are not privates. I have a feeling that if congress was aware that officers were being tasked with picking up trash, mopping floors, and other related tasks, there would be big problems.
I believe that the problem stems with the system, and not anywhere else. 30 years ago, flight school students were WOCs. The tasking being assigned to officers may be appropriate for candidates, but not for officers. From an outsider looking in, I have observed that flight school has the, "It sucked for me years ago, so it is going to suck for you" mindset. As opposed to, "How can we make it better"?
When officers of other services hear of the way that the Army treats it's officers, they are appalled and baffled as to why these resources are being squandered away.
F**kin Bubbles... first of all, stay out of trouble. Dumbass WOJG's out doing stupid $h1t and/or getting injured are the quickest ways into a bubble. Stay in the books and pass all tests AND retest (if applicable). You and your class need to stay UNDER the Bco RADAR!! Of course you can't help medical issues or family issues. My wife had our lil' girl right before WOBC (OBC now) and BAM, two wk bubble. The quicker you get through school = the quicker you get to a unit = the quicker you REALLY learn how to fly = the quicker you start puttin rounds/troops downrange = the quicker you become a war hero.
I really want to stress the, "DON'T BE THAT GUY" everyone talks about by doin something stupid. Have a life, drink lots of beer, and enjoy every min of flying while at school - just use your head... the one with a nose, mouth, and eyes
richard.heath
03 Jul 05, 18:31
...for those with prior service to WOC and flight school...enjoy the break! For those just starting the experience...don't be is too big a hurry...remember, the blue whale has a small throat!
Welcome to the F@$%ing Army!:cool:
shadow_biker02
03 Jul 05, 19:31
Originally posted by OldSalt
Bubbles wouldn't suck if the work assigned was managerial in nature, as opposed to knuckle dragging low brow labor jobs. I feel that the manner in which the officer pool is being utilized is a travisty. If the students were placed into positions of leadership, or directing projects around the post, then I would understand the, "Working for your paycheck" mentallity.
The fact is, WO1's, and 2LT's are not privates. I have a feeling that if congress was aware that officers were being tasked with picking up trash, mopping floors, and other related tasks, there would be big problems.
I believe that the problem stems with the system, and not anywhere else. 30 years ago, flight school students were WOCs. The tasking being assigned to officers may be appropriate for candidates, but not for officers. From an outsider looking in, I have observed that flight school has the, "It sucked for me years ago, so it is going to suck for you" mindset. As opposed to, "How can we make it better"?
When officers of other services hear of the way that the Army treats it's officers, they are appalled and baffled as to why these resources are being squandered away.
Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that. If you believe that somehow because someone is an officer, then they are better than enlisted and shouldn't do manual labor jobs, you need to pull your head out of your 4th point of contact.
Yes, officers are supposed to be leaders. I agree with that. But as a newly pinned W01 or 2LT there is nothing wrong with mopping and picking up trash. If you expect your future troopies to do it, then you should know how to do it too. Lead be example. Easy to say, but for so many, hard to do.
If you want to do managerial work while in a bubble, volunteer to help run casual duty. If you don't want to do that, suck it up and do whatever is assigned to you. If you feel that you are too good for "knuckle dragging low brow labor jobs," I'd like to know who you think should do them.
If you have a solution to fix the system, fill out a comment card. Or you could always submit your recommendations in memo format thru you chain of command.
JasonActon
03 Jul 05, 22:19
Originally posted by kwpaquette
If someone can figure out how to control the WX, Maintenance, parts shortages, etc., then we can make sure every class graduates on time and the bubble will go away.
The weather part is easy to fix; just move the school out to one of the many empty air bases in California. The parts issue will never be fixed unless we go back to having a huge war-stock of parts like we did for the Hueys and Cobras, and without parts maintenance can't get much better either.
stearmann4
03 Jul 05, 23:47
I agree that it would be ideal to appoint bubble-bound WO1s in a supervisory role? My first question is who the hell are the 1500 WO1s going to be in charge of?, what do we tell the equal number of 2LTs?
Ideally, those awaiting class should be able to go home and phone in daily or weekly. The reality, due in large part to the predominately young age/immaturity of WO1s (prior service not withstanding) is that they havent the maturity, proactiveness, or motivation to keep themselves out of trouble and remain productive. Which, is why we have crap like WO1s robbing gun shops, DUIs, etc. Navy flight school has their casual duty officers phone in weekly without much problem, but the demographics are a little different also. But again, the Navy wouldn't in a million years have their officers cleaning the grounds, or standing outside the gym issuing "courtesy tickets" for uniform violations.
Lastly, not all WO1s are not created equal no matter what the "code" states. A 10 year NCO deserves a minimum of consideration for his maturity, demonstrated sound judgement (if that's the case), and service. There's a ton of 20 year old WO1s floating around flight school who think they're above details, or entitled to better treatment. The military, and specifically Ft Rucker don't owe them jack sh*t! Silver bullets have to be earned.
I've rambled so that I forgot what the hell I originally wanted to reply to....
Rant switch...off.
I think we (students WO1/2LT alike) get into enough trouble while in active classes, much less during bubbles. I'm going on 8 years in and I still try to do stupid things when I have too much time on my hands. While details aren't my favorite thing to do, I don't think anything is beneath me at this point. I laugh every time I hear students with <6months talk about "the real army" and "getting off of a TRADOC post". I am at least smart enough to keep my mouth shut and know my role. Lots of others here should do the same. A couple of hours of SDO or a weekend funeral is always better than mortar attacks and IED's.
Regardless of what we think about the present situation;
1. It is the demonstrated inability of student officers to behave like professional officers which created this situation in the first place, lo these many years ago.
2. Fort Rucker has restructured itself in the drawdowns and force reductions to rely on student casual labor rather than beg TRADOC for more bodies or hire civilians out of dwindling resources, so this isn't going to change anytime soon.
3. Each and every student is being paid (quite well, in fact) every day. The Army has a perfectly legitimate right to demand a day's work for day's pay.
4. It is not beneath anyone's dignity to support the funeral detail. Anyone who has heartburn paying last respects to a soldier who honorably served his country probably needs to find another career.
5. None of the taskings involve manual labor, at least in the classic sense. I would hardly classify shredding paper in that category. Every once in a while, students are asked to rearrange a classroom. Big deal.
6. Authority in the Army is based on rank and assignment or position. If your commander tells you that you work for some sergeant, civilian, or whoever, this is what you have to do.
7. Pride and ego (which is what most of this is), is WAY too expensive to maintain in the Army. If you want to be a prima donna officer, go join the Navy.
8. The Army is paying you for your primary MOS and "other duties as assigned." Go re-read your contract.
9. In the "real Army", you aren't in charge of anyone, anyway. Warrants are technicians. Senior Warrants police and guide junior Warrants. LTs are in a structured learning environment with tasks and responsibilities according to their demonstrated abilities. The fact is, Warrants pilots are only officers because of intra-service status and for pay. Lieutenants are supposed to be leaders. Warrants need to be proud of a can-do attitude without complaining that they are not in charge, and LTs need to quit whining and lead by example.
This is the situation we have now, and we have to deal with it.
Bubbles are inevitable.
Students on hold is inevitable.
The fact that if you don't employ soldiers they get into trouble has been true since Hannibal set his men to digging ditches.
The fact that soldiers complain has been true for an equally long time.
Officers, however need to behave that much better than the enlisted soldiers.
They need to lead by example and not complain because they can't supervise someone.
Complaints are unwelcome, unless there is a suggestion about how to fix the situation attached.
I suppose we could set students to supervising the water fountain...
AndyMiller
05 Jul 05, 10:43
You can say all you want about WO1s and the "high school to flight school" guys being the problem...
Only about 30% of aviation warrants selected are not prior service.
Oh, and they have it easy these days, it was harder when you went through.
maybe i'm biased cause the only bubble i had was due to my lil' girls birth, but I sure do HOPE these bitches and complaints are NOT coming from folks who failed the retest or did something stupid/worthy of getting pulled out of class. Shit happens guys. Basic training - Iraq - shitty TDY's - JRTC - RIP - and a bunch of other things i can think of ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON = they don't last forever. Suck it up guys, damn... complaints are worthless unless they include a fix to the problem
Oh yea, no disrespect to guys who have medical/family issues. I just hate hearing crap from ppl who put themselves in a bubble by doing the wrong thing
It's not critical for me to know, but, what are most Warrant Officers doing during the infamous "bubbles?" I've looked at some old threads but there is more debate about whether or not it should exist rather than what they normally have us doing.
I haven't been away from there very long. You should expect to pull funeral detail, help setup for graduations, sling-load detail if you're lucky, maybe pull some office work or sdo if someone really hates you. None of it requires more than a handful of brain cells, the hardest part is keeping yourself out of trouble before class starts.
Thanks for the info Punk Kid. I haven't forgotten how to work for a living but I would like to believe that life will be somewhat different as a Warrant Officer (i.e. more think and less busting knuckles) though I did learn alot as an EM. I'd rather know what to expect than be one of those guys bitching about how we shouldn't have to do "this stuff."
AndyMiller
31 Jul 06, 15:57
as new WO1s awaiting flight school at Fort Rucker, you are part of a rather large pool of labor.
There will be plenty of chances to bitch about officers not having to "do this stuff."
Do your job, whatever it may be and then go to flight school when you're able.
That's the plan.
Hey, I'm beginning to get the impression that how long you stay in the bubble depends on you, to some degree. Has anyone heard that being proactive will help get you into class sooner or will it just piss off the staff?
shadow_biker02
31 Jul 06, 16:08
95% of the taskings at Rucker are done by flight students. With almost 2000 flight students, that's just the way it is. Your best bet is to try to avoid bubbles, but it you do find yourself in one, try to find a job that keeps you out of trouble.
I worked in the Protocol office while I waited a few months for AQC. Worked 9 to 5, 5 days a week, and didn't pull Staff Duty.
I haven't forgotten how to work for a living but I would like to believe that life will be somewhat different as a Warrant Officer (i.e. more think and less busting knuckles)
Probably won't happen til you get out of flight school and have to think about what to buy for the fridge fund.
Your best bet is to study, stay under the radar, and get out of there as quick as you can.
Being proactive may help to an extent, just be reasonable. Very few people actually want to be on hold and all of them bugging the TAC's won't get you in any faster, and might just have the opposite effect. Just have all your shit squared away so that you're good to go as soon as you get the call.
also another thing to do is get caller ID and know when the company is calling you.
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